This is a private conversation with Tomshardware.co.uk moderator, started by "Religeous attitudes towards memory kits".
Private messages>
Subject: Notice
To: Valentin Tihomirov
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 15, 2013 12:54 PM
Unless you watch your language you will be banned.... And
would suggest learning a little something before berating people and what they
say when they try and help until you learn a little about the subject matter -
you constantly refer to 1666 DRAM which there is none that I know of, DRAM
specs to 1333, 1600, 1866 and higher, not 1666, if you knew a little about
computers you should know this. This is simply a warning, your abusive behavior
to others will not be tolerated
Tradesman1
Moderator
Tradesman1
Moderator
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 15, 2013 8:50 PM
Ban is an important tool in the toolkit of religious
authority. I talk about frequency and reason. Your argument is like telling
that I have a grammatical error and, therefore, my point is wrong. This is a
manipulation.
Regarding, the grammatical error, go to Jedec specs, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM#JEDEC_standard_modules, and watch 1333 and 1666 frequencies yourself.
So, learn something about memories first before answering me, ok? I have told that I do not accept answers from bigotry.
Regarding, the grammatical error, go to Jedec specs, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM#JEDEC_standard_modules, and watch 1333 and 1666 frequencies yourself.
So, learn something about memories first before answering me, ok? I have told that I do not accept answers from bigotry.
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 15, 2013 8:58 PM
In my I consider what happens when we combine modules
designed for different frequencies, A, and B > A. The actual values do not
matter. As a bigot, you ignore the point and only come up with a meaningless cavil.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 16, 2013 12:23 AM
As far as the JEDEC Specs, the only thing listed as close
is 10666 is in the peak MB/S column which equates to 1333 freq DRAM or the
straight 666 for I/O bus clock, so you may want to take your own advice and
look at the chart you reference and maybe even search for 1666 - it won't be
found...And based on your continued insulting behavior you'll have 48 hours to
try and learn a little about what you are talking about
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 12:32 AM
Sorry, I was talking about 166.6 vs 133.3 MHz. Logic
remains the same. You do not need the accurate numbers addressing the reason
and logic.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 16, 2013 12:52 AM
Yes you do, as most all people refer to DRAM according to
the common nomenclature of freq 1066, 1333, 1600, 1866 etc, and when they do
talk about the actual Memory Clock (which few even know about, to talk about)
they will talk "1066 with 133 and 2/3s" rather than "1066 with
1333" for just that reason - to not confuse people. All of your references
in your posts make no sense and make you appear to be an idiot ranting and
raving about 1666 DRAM when there is none - and then you go on and accuse people
of being bigots, saying B***S***, and the F bomb, etc ranting about things
being religiously centered, etc - that type of behavior is not acceptable.
Also for informational purposes - DRAM testing is done to ensure that sticks will play together - because as you should know, ALL DRAM in a system runs at the same identical settings - you can't go in and say this stick will run at 1333 and we'll run this one at 1335 and this at 1600 and this at 1666 - they all run at the same freq, same base timings, same secondary and tertiary timings, same Command Rate and same voltage
Also for informational purposes - DRAM testing is done to ensure that sticks will play together - because as you should know, ALL DRAM in a system runs at the same identical settings - you can't go in and say this stick will run at 1333 and we'll run this one at 1335 and this at 1600 and this at 1666 - they all run at the same freq, same base timings, same secondary and tertiary timings, same Command Rate and same voltage
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 2:38 AM
You is an idiot. I scream that my posts are not about
1666 rams at all. You is a blind bigot.
For informational purposes: you did not read what I say and sticks run at the same freaq not because they have matching settings. They run at the same freq because controller works at that frequency. What you "inform" here makes no sense because it sheds no light on what I asked and there is no need to test that params are matching when they are matching by definition. As any religious man, you produce tons of information, unconnected to the question that you are asked. You just do not listen and has no purpose to create connections. You broadcast your religion.
For informational purposes: you did not read what I say and sticks run at the same freaq not because they have matching settings. They run at the same freq because controller works at that frequency. What you "inform" here makes no sense because it sheds no light on what I asked and there is no need to test that params are matching when they are matching by definition. As any religious man, you produce tons of information, unconnected to the question that you are asked. You just do not listen and has no purpose to create connections. You broadcast your religion.
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 2:48 AM
I meant to say "sticks run at the same freq not
because they have matching parameters but because controller has these
settings" and you do not listen what I have asked. You broadcast your
knowledge. You do not even try to understand what is asked or point to
inconsistency. By saying that all my question is nonsense, you just demonstrate that
you are not going to discuss it. I just do not understand what you are
informing me afterwards. Yes, you broadcast your religion. All the purpose of
the tomshardware questions-answers is to serve you a pretext to broadcast what
you want, not what is asked.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 16, 2013 4:20 AM
Isn't it sort of hard to 'Broadcast your religion' if you
don't have or claim one? So I don't understand your point as there isn't one in
this regard, unless of course you have taken it upon yourself and decided that
I am of some certain religion, and apparently one that you don't
like....Branding people as you do, calling them Bigots, swearing in the forums
is not acceptable yet you continue, so farewell.
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 4:31 AM
This is another manipulation. You say that you are
infallible because if I your bad this only means that it is my fault. Here is
what philosophy of science says about such sophistry:
(K.Popper):
Hegel's method of superseding Kant, therefore, is effective, but
unfortunately too effective. It makes his system secure against
any sort of criticism or attack and thus is dogmatic in a very
peculiar sense, so that I should like to call it a "re-inforced
dogmatism ". (It may be remarked that we find such re-inforced
dogmatism embodied in various dogmatic systems.)
(K.Popper):
Hegel's method of superseding Kant, therefore, is effective, but
unfortunately too effective. It makes his system secure against
any sort of criticism or attack and thus is dogmatic in a very
peculiar sense, so that I should like to call it a "re-inforced
dogmatism ". (It may be remarked that we find such re-inforced
dogmatism embodied in various dogmatic systems.)
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 4:39 AM
Actually, being an atheist is not a religion, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A41WZBcmnfc Atheists expose the religion dogmas but they are not
bigots, despite religous men try to convince us. This is another sing of your
religious behaviour.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 16, 2013 4:48 AM
Did I say I was an Atheist? No, don't think so, while I
do appreciate the laughs you provide, you are becoming a bit of a bore...If you
simply are looking to criticize someone about any old thing that pops into your
head suggest you go look in a mirror - that person would be a prime candidate
for you to criticize
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 4:57 AM
Who did say that I said you is an Atheist? You do not
understand my argument: I expose that you use a bigotry argument. Claiming that
"people who call other people bigots bigots are bigots themselves" is
a dogmatic sophistry. I spotted that you use it. I respond that this is a wrong
argument. I may call other bigots and stay an atheist. This is what I say. You
just do not understand simple things. Meantime, you hurry to respond and
translate your thoughts. Disregarding what people tell you is what I call the
dogmatic thinking.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 16, 2013 5:48 AM
I don't understand your so called 'argument' because you
have none. When people are ranting and raving and not making sense - and
blaming everything on other people, calling them names, and offering idiotic
arguments it reminds me of a 3 three year old....generally most kids are at
least somewhat mature by 5 or so, how old are you? You are the one who thinks
in a dogmatic manner, you are making assertions when A) you don't even know how
something works and B) condemning any and everyone who tries to explain
something to you - You have decided that you are right and everyone else is
wrong...period....
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 6:36 AM
The fact that you are blind does not mean that your
opponent has no point. You have decided that you are right and everyone else is
wrong...period....
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 16, 2013 6:56 AM
Now repeating, paraphrasing what I say, that's about the
level of a 2 year old, you're going backwards there mate (again though
thanks for the laughs, your responses are a very popular read, you're amusing a
number of us now )
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 9:32 AM
What you now say is a direct insult without any reference
to anything at all. Insulting is very funny, I know, for morons.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 16, 2013 9:39 AM
Nothing needed for reference, I'm letting other read your
babbling and they find it hilarious also
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 9:41 AM
It is not difficult to guess that your company is not
different from you.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 16, 2013 10:08 AM
There you go 'assuming' once again - talking when you
have no idea of what you are saying...... Because actually my company (actually
both of them, I have a systems consultancy as well as a home remodeling
business) are me so yes they are the same, as far as the forums go, I'm a
volunteer (am thinking of becoming a stand up comedian, can just stand up there
and tell stories about people like you and how you go on and on and never make
a single substantial statement.
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 10:13 AM
Blaming that others have no substantial statement is
normal for people like you. The thieves are known to be the first who alarm
about a theft. I have told you that ignoring points of your opponents does not
make you right or nullifies the point they had.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 16, 2013 10:58 AM
The problem with that is you have yet to make a valid
point about anything, and I don't consider you as an opponent, just a
distraction, an amusing one, but still a distraction, though better than a
cloud of mosquitos
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 11:03 AM
You ignore the argument, say that there is none, and,
based on that say that you can troll. This is an unbeatable approach to troll
anybody. You is a master of this business. Or simply an idiot.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 16, 2013 11:14 AM
What argument? Been asking that all along - you haven't
presented anything...after all the junk about 1333 and 1666, then changing the story
to 133.3 and 166.6 which I've already pointed out is the Memory clock, not the
freq, it still made no sense, I also pointed out that all DRAM in a given
system runs at the same settings, you can't individualize what each stick runs
at. You appear to be intent on rationalizing to the nth degree just to get
someone to agree with you, and anyone who has a bit of common sense and knows a
little about DRAM won't agree with you because you have no valid basis to la=y
your claims - when people say you are wrong, you just continue to rationalize
and rant and rave and sound like a small spoiled child
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 11:37 AM
That is right. In order to agree with somebody you should
at least understand what they are talking about. But you did not even try. You
started by telling that I have no idea how systems work and continued me
informing unimportant things. Then you have claimed that I have no point at
all. You just claimed. You did not make any attempt to elaborate any of my
complaints. And finally, now, you surprise me that you was asking me all along?
Claiming that I have no idea is opposite to asking. So, you ignored my points
and, based on that trolled me with "you have no point". Dictated me
that I have no idea and now troll me with a "fact" that is was asking
me. Labelling me a child is a good crowning of your behaviour. When you despise
somebody, you should give them a degenerative label. You is a master of
sophistry.
BTW, everything what stand-up comedians do is RANTING! Stand up comedians scorn stupid things. They tell stories about the stupid things they spot around. They complain. This is a boring RANTING, as you call it and punish it. When sombody comes to forum with "Hey, I see a flow in that argument. Why do they unnotice my objection, when I specifically draw their attention to it many times?" Your answer is "watch you language", "All you do is ranting. You have not point". Now you say that you should go stand up comedy (to do ranting yourself). I suspected that bigots are two-faced people.
BTW, everything what stand-up comedians do is RANTING! Stand up comedians scorn stupid things. They tell stories about the stupid things they spot around. They complain. This is a boring RANTING, as you call it and punish it. When sombody comes to forum with "Hey, I see a flow in that argument. Why do they unnotice my objection, when I specifically draw their attention to it many times?" Your answer is "watch you language", "All you do is ranting. You have not point". Now you say that you should go stand up comedy (to do ranting yourself). I suspected that bigots are two-faced people.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 16, 2013 11:51 AM
It was explained to you that you had no idea what you
were talking about, and you didn't and still don't, by a few people that tried
to explain it to you - you chose not to listen and took to swearing and
throwing religion into your your so called argument - stand up comedy is often
using real life instance to relate that are hilarious, like dealing with people
like you - you have no valid points, you don't even know what you are/were
referencing....but according to you - you are right! That's generally called a
God complex, which you excel in, so congrats, go look in the mirror and talk to
your only friend
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 16, 2013 7:29 PM
> It was explained to you that you had no idea what
you were talking about
You have dictated that to me. It is I who explained. Explaining would look like
"you tell that this your argument was ignored. Yet, they address it here, look"
or
"you tell that memory is attached to the controller rather than another memory and this is much more important to test memories against specific controller. However, ..."
or
"you tell that attaching 1666 MHz memory to 1333 MHz memory better favours the performance than pairing matched specifications in one channel because of reduced capacitive load. However, you overlook .."
These are 3 points in my post. They can be disputed/explained. I did not ask to agree with them. You have not even noticed them, not to mention "explaining them." All your explanation contained in saying that 1. I have no idea and 2, my numbers, 1333 vs 1666 are not absolutely correct. Once, I have made clear that I am here to discuss the principle and concrete numbers do not matter, you decided that it is time to claim that I have points at all and returned to blind preaching about importance of testing sticks against each other, what I called "religious attitude" in my post and asked to refrain.
You cannot explain me anything when disregarding the key points that I ask. You say that I don't on the basis of competently ignoring the 3 points above. When you tell somebody that "they have no idea. period" without discussion of your opponent points, you do not explain/discuss anything, you just go fuck. Preaching your favorite thing, regardless what people ask and openly disregarding their question may work for others but when I ask for reason, I want the answer. As prof. Zain Navabi once mentioned, this distinguishes me from other students. Might be it is a childish behavior, but it is better than succumbing authority and opposite to what you attributed to me.
You have dictated that to me. It is I who explained. Explaining would look like
"you tell that this your argument was ignored. Yet, they address it here, look"
or
"you tell that memory is attached to the controller rather than another memory and this is much more important to test memories against specific controller. However, ..."
or
"you tell that attaching 1666 MHz memory to 1333 MHz memory better favours the performance than pairing matched specifications in one channel because of reduced capacitive load. However, you overlook .."
These are 3 points in my post. They can be disputed/explained. I did not ask to agree with them. You have not even noticed them, not to mention "explaining them." All your explanation contained in saying that 1. I have no idea and 2, my numbers, 1333 vs 1666 are not absolutely correct. Once, I have made clear that I am here to discuss the principle and concrete numbers do not matter, you decided that it is time to claim that I have points at all and returned to blind preaching about importance of testing sticks against each other, what I called "religious attitude" in my post and asked to refrain.
You cannot explain me anything when disregarding the key points that I ask. You say that I don't on the basis of competently ignoring the 3 points above. When you tell somebody that "they have no idea. period" without discussion of your opponent points, you do not explain/discuss anything, you just go fuck. Preaching your favorite thing, regardless what people ask and openly disregarding their question may work for others but when I ask for reason, I want the answer. As prof. Zain Navabi once mentioned, this distinguishes me from other students. Might be it is a childish behavior, but it is better than succumbing authority and opposite to what you attributed to me.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 17, 2013 12:33 AM
DRAM is complex, but can be quite simple - and yes
numbers do matter - DRAM in of itself is a 64 bit device as seen my the MC -
when running in dual channel it is seen by the MC as a single 128 bit device -
thus each stick has to run with the same exact parameters as far as freq, base
timings, secondary and even tertiary timings, as well as CR and voltage. And
this applies to both channels in dual channel...what you propose is akin to
taking a two cylinder engine and trying to run it effectively with two totally
disparate spark plugs - it's not going run right
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 17, 2013 1:22 AM
You interpret what I say so loosely that this I do not
recognize my speech. Thanks for the accuracy, that you pursuit.
Also, thanks for demonstrating your competence. The car engine and memory controller obviously have something in common but they also have immense differences and it is not clear what better applies here.
I do not understand why automechanics are chosen to moderate the tomshardware. All I see in your vague "simplification" is that you cannot/do not wish to discuss the substance. You could tell that directly, without the pretending metaphore, which proves nothing (otherwise, you should tell exactly which point of my post you address). Might be you simply do not have the competence to answer my questions (might be even to understand them) and look for excuses and preach things that you know but which do not contribute to my questions whatsoever. This time, however, you started the open lies.
At first, numbers do not matter when we discuss a general principle. The principle is a thing that applies to any numbers. Otherwise, you should tell why the numbers change the answer to my question. The only reason I hear so far is that you do not want to answer my questions and use the fact that I do not report frequences accurately is a good pretext to do that. Secondly, I actually have the multichannel board that operates its channels at different timings (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1688218/sticks-channel.html):
when I plug two such sticks into the same channel, I get 8-8-8 in
the overloaded channel. Other channels still operate at 7-7-7,
I did not hide this from you. I spread this information (information is something that is not known). I wanted the people to know about common misconceptions and modern memory controller capabilities. Despite of this, you keep spreading the false beliefes. You ignore the facts, call my references "making no sense" and use other sophistry. That is, you demonstrate the bigotry every time you open a mouth. You behave like you have a dogma that only identical modules can work together and only with fully identical settings and want to hide the fact that alternatives to this simple model are possible. Yes, the reality is different from your simple multicilinder metaphor.
In general you produce a lot of "information". However, all the infromation you spread is well known, occasionally wrong, and is always irreleveant to my questions (otherwise, you must show the connection and which part of my question you do answer). The information that you spread is not information but is misinfomrmation, intended to hide the true information (aka substance) and meaningful discussion. It is not surprising that you hate to hear about the bigots.
Also, thanks for demonstrating your competence. The car engine and memory controller obviously have something in common but they also have immense differences and it is not clear what better applies here.
I do not understand why automechanics are chosen to moderate the tomshardware. All I see in your vague "simplification" is that you cannot/do not wish to discuss the substance. You could tell that directly, without the pretending metaphore, which proves nothing (otherwise, you should tell exactly which point of my post you address). Might be you simply do not have the competence to answer my questions (might be even to understand them) and look for excuses and preach things that you know but which do not contribute to my questions whatsoever. This time, however, you started the open lies.
At first, numbers do not matter when we discuss a general principle. The principle is a thing that applies to any numbers. Otherwise, you should tell why the numbers change the answer to my question. The only reason I hear so far is that you do not want to answer my questions and use the fact that I do not report frequences accurately is a good pretext to do that. Secondly, I actually have the multichannel board that operates its channels at different timings (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1688218/sticks-channel.html):
when I plug two such sticks into the same channel, I get 8-8-8 in
the overloaded channel. Other channels still operate at 7-7-7,
I did not hide this from you. I spread this information (information is something that is not known). I wanted the people to know about common misconceptions and modern memory controller capabilities. Despite of this, you keep spreading the false beliefes. You ignore the facts, call my references "making no sense" and use other sophistry. That is, you demonstrate the bigotry every time you open a mouth. You behave like you have a dogma that only identical modules can work together and only with fully identical settings and want to hide the fact that alternatives to this simple model are possible. Yes, the reality is different from your simple multicilinder metaphor.
In general you produce a lot of "information". However, all the infromation you spread is well known, occasionally wrong, and is always irreleveant to my questions (otherwise, you must show the connection and which part of my question you do answer). The information that you spread is not information but is misinfomrmation, intended to hide the true information (aka substance) and meaningful discussion. It is not surprising that you hate to hear about the bigots.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 17, 2013 1:31 AM
Can you provide screen shots of what you are saying - I'm
thinking you are looking at the SPD info - which is simply suggested settings
from the SPD of the sticks, not what they are running at
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 17, 2013 1:47 AM
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 17, 2013 1:57 AM
That shows, as labeled - "Memory SPD" - the SPD
is simply information about the sticks not what they are running at - if you
look in CPU-Z in the Memory tab it will show what each stick is actually
running at
http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=10565
http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=10565
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 17, 2013 2:11 AM
Frequency is the same for all sticks, 533 DRAM and 2130
the bus.
The timings are reported from BIOS. 8/8/8+7/7/7+7/7/7 is the bios report. CPU-z says that my memory operates in triple channel. That is, 888 works it triple channel with 777, as opposed to your claim.
What are you trying to say? I did no claim that channel frequencies are different, ok? I feel it is what you want to twist. Be concrete. I know the difference between frequency, e.g. 1333 MHz, and timings, e.g. 7-7-7.
The timings are reported from BIOS. 8/8/8+7/7/7+7/7/7 is the bios report. CPU-z says that my memory operates in triple channel. That is, 888 works it triple channel with 777, as opposed to your claim.
What are you trying to say? I did no claim that channel frequencies are different, ok? I feel it is what you want to twist. Be concrete. I know the difference between frequency, e.g. 1333 MHz, and timings, e.g. 7-7-7.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 17, 2013 5:45 AM
Never mind, you simply try and keep changing what you are
saying, twisting things around, no matter what anyone says you will just change
things yet again, maybe start saying the color of the heatsinks will play into
it....tired of wasting my time, and the humor has become somewhat pathetic - am
closing down the responses
From: Valentin Tihomirov
Sent on: December 17, 2013 10:05 PM
> Never mind, you simply try and keep changing what
you are saying, twisting things around
What exactly? So far, you have connected no of your generalizations to what I say. You have just sucked. And what you do? You do interpret my attempt to prevent your twisting as my attempt to twist. You is a dirty brainless conscienceless bastard.
> humor has become somewhat pathetic
Yes, you are in real ass, your wrong stereotype was exposed, it was broken and this means that
> am closing down the responses
Your car engine model fucked up because in real car, all cilinders drive the single rotor. The rotor synchronizes the cylinders. Yet memories store different pieces of data in different channels. This means that it is stupid to synchronize the assesses and PC designers struggle to decouple the channel dependencies. This is what your model does not admit and fucks up. The fact with 888 running simulatneously with 777 proves that. By saying that I twist, you cover your false claim about timing dependencies. You is a dirty religeous bastard.
Your manner of reasoning "DRAM is complex, therefore, I am right", followed by "DRAM is simple, therefore, I am right" can persuade only ignorant person.
What exactly? So far, you have connected no of your generalizations to what I say. You have just sucked. And what you do? You do interpret my attempt to prevent your twisting as my attempt to twist. You is a dirty brainless conscienceless bastard.
> humor has become somewhat pathetic
Yes, you are in real ass, your wrong stereotype was exposed, it was broken and this means that
> am closing down the responses
Your car engine model fucked up because in real car, all cilinders drive the single rotor. The rotor synchronizes the cylinders. Yet memories store different pieces of data in different channels. This means that it is stupid to synchronize the assesses and PC designers struggle to decouple the channel dependencies. This is what your model does not admit and fucks up. The fact with 888 running simulatneously with 777 proves that. By saying that I twist, you cover your false claim about timing dependencies. You is a dirty religeous bastard.
Your manner of reasoning "DRAM is complex, therefore, I am right", followed by "DRAM is simple, therefore, I am right" can persuade only ignorant person.
From: Tradesman1
Sent on: December 17, 2013 11:59 PM
There's an old saying "Ignorance is bliss", so
it would appear you are a very, very Blissful individual
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